Message Re: Analyser un casque/intra. Eléments de méthode 21 Oct 2014 17:30

Je crois que Darktores etait interessé pour travailler sur des playlists de test et des élements de reference, jdcjdr :)

Message 29 Jan 2015 12:05

Je me mets un bloc note d'une discussion sur chat .. elle est relative au sujet qui m'intéresse et je pense aller en discuter avec eux sur Changstar. A suivre

N'affichez que si vous êtes prêt à décrypter un fil de chat en anglais en cherchant les éléments relatifs au sujet.... le fil est anti horaire, le post le plus récent en haut et on remonte le temps... Le thème c'est de savoir quel est leressenti d'écoute selon les plages de fréquences.

Je suis sur le dernier test du philips Golden ears training (viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7393&p=210371&hilit=Golden+Ears)  et ce dernier test c'est justement de répérer à l'oreille si la différence appliquée à l'extrait audio de référence est un pic ou un creux à 63 hz, 125hz, 250hz, 500hz , 1Khz, 2Khz, 4hz ,8 khz ou 16 khz. ... En plein dans le sujet aussi donc.


Sorrodje:
   anetode . i'll create the thread. Hope some other people has some interest for this topic.
   Today at 02:49:29 AM
   Sorrodje:
   Yup shouty is what I would say too. Not tried more than 1 minute though. I couldn't stand more and the owner desperately looked for a dac in order to smothen its HE-560.. that's not a good sign.
   Today at 02:48:05 AM
   anetode:
   re: 560's 4khz peak - it's really noticeable. ruins some live recordings as it tends to collapse the soundstage and make the vocals too close and prominent. i remember grados having a similar effect for slightly different reasons, but nowadays i'm used to recessed upper mids and the 560 is quite a contrast. it's not overly sibilant or painfully sharp, 'shouty' does seem like a good descriptor.
   Today at 02:22:55 AM
   anetode:
   i'm glad that the motd keeps track of the insurance buying habits of the chang admins, can't wait 'till april and a newsflash about taxes  ;)
   Today at 02:14:07 AM
   anetode:
   feel free to start one up, sorrodje
   Today at 02:12:20 AM
   Sorrodje:
   Great stuff in the shoutbox today. Deserves a dedicated thread bout frequency ranges , associated listening impressions induced and  music that could be used to track bumps and dips in every frequency range. My 2 cents
   Today at 01:31:23 AM
   Sorrodje:
   kothganesh ; congrats. I would be really pleased to answer you in Hindi but I can't . Sorry
   January 28, 2015, 11:57:12 PM
   kothganesh:
   Sorro...I did not use Google for this...I did study French for 6 years...
   January 28, 2015, 11:45:44 PM
   hans030390:
   oh no doubt my taste in music and the fact I listen loud factor into my subjective tastes. I'm sure some comes down to other physical and mental aspects too.
   January 28, 2015, 11:29:26 PM
   Ringingears:
   Let's stick to audio if we can.
   January 28, 2015, 10:37:26 PM
   Ringingears:
   Oh. Data is still incomplete and too much emotions. So, no comment except to say.  The news flash seems to be in the minority reoport.
   January 28, 2015, 10:36:29 PM
   insidious meme:
   Paul read the MOTD.
   January 28, 2015, 10:30:41 PM
   Ringingears:
   It did? Huh?
   January 28, 2015, 10:26:35 PM
   burnspbesq:
   If i want poorly reasoned, unfunny wingnut nonsense, there are thousands of sites that do it better.
   January 28, 2015, 10:13:11 PM
   burnspbesq:
   When did Changstar become RedState?
   January 28, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
   Bill-p:
   I'm curious: is the Fostex HP-A8 any good? I really liked the HP-P1.
   January 28, 2015, 09:56:02 PM
   funkmeister:
   Oh, and none of my other phones or IEMs exhibit the tizz behavior.
   January 28, 2015, 09:15:11 PM
   funkmeister:
   A comment about "tizz". I rarely hear it, but if I have my K142HD's turned down low (I'm guessing <=60dB) then I hear tizz all over the place. It doesn't sound like loose parts or a torn diaphragm, but maybe an odd vibration of the aluminum shell. I pressed on it to dampen it but it did nothing, so that's not it. Also, it actually bugs my ears after a while as if I've been listening too loudly. If I listen in the 70's of dB's then neither the tizz nor the fatigue manifest. Weird, eh?!
   January 28, 2015, 09:12:51 PM
   frenchbat:
   Also decreasing capability with age
   January 28, 2015, 09:04:40 PM
   frenchbat:
   Ears being like fingerprints and ear canals evolving all the time, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few differences in hearing capabilities on the edges between individuals
   January 28, 2015, 09:03:42 PM
   takato14:
   Because I have different tastes.
   January 28, 2015, 08:53:40 PM
   Bill-p:
   Yeah... the HE-560 has that "little bit" at 4KHz as well, which I hear as a lot of harshness and grain at stock... but I suspect the Focus Pads A eliminates some if not most of it. I'm kinda certain it's also independent of the usual ortho wall.
   January 28, 2015, 08:53:29 PM
   takato14:
   Or maybe we both hear the same and it just doesn't bother you as much as it does me, if at all.
   January 28, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
   OJneg:
   If you really do hear the HD600's treble as more problematic than those two headphones....well I guess the Head-Fiers are right, we all really do hear different  facepalm
   January 28, 2015, 08:50:48 PM
   takato14:
   perhaps
   January 28, 2015, 08:50:28 PM
   takato14:
   a little bit of something at 4k though
   January 28, 2015, 08:50:22 PM
   takato14:
   yeah, he does, and they're pretty much clean
   January 28, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
   takato14:
   Why would such an open headphone have a resonance like that? The phase plot is clean up top and the FR doesn't suggest anything. Does purrin have CSDs?
   January 28, 2015, 08:49:23 PM
   Bill-p:
   Fun fact: I heard it with the HD600 that CT loaned me as well... even with the Crack. But only in about 1-2 songs.
   January 28, 2015, 08:49:10 PM
   Bill-p:
   Tizz sounds like you're hearing resonance rather than leading edge wiggle, which actually would sound more diffused/confused than tizz IMO.
   January 28, 2015, 08:48:16 PM
   takato14:
   I don't hear it on the HD800 or Q701 FWIW and those are usually called bright
   January 28, 2015, 08:46:55 PM
   takato14:
   not with the HD600 as it's light on tizz compared to most things, its just something about it I noticed that kept me from enjoying it
   January 28, 2015, 08:46:31 PM
   takato14:
   like sometimes ear bleeding
   January 28, 2015, 08:45:56 PM
   takato14:
   The HD600 isn't bright at all, but tizz can be very unpleasant at high volumes
   January 28, 2015, 08:45:45 PM
   OJneg:
   Only real cure is getting Audezes or getting into vinyl
   January 28, 2015, 08:44:00 PM
   OJneg:
   I dunno, when someone like Hans complains about the HD600 being bright and needing mods I really wonder. Cuz I know what kind of music hans listens to (I enjoy it myself) and that's just how that stuff sounds. Especially if you try to turn it up
   January 28, 2015, 08:43:05 PM
   AZ:
   Took my 6 years old to a classical concert for the first time tonight. He actually liked the experience and wants to go with me again next month. Liked cello the most as it reminded him of an elephant. Had a great time myself watching him listening to music.
   January 28, 2015, 08:41:20 PM
   takato14:
   ? What makes sense?
   January 28, 2015, 08:38:42 PM
   takato14:
   all of the game rips are in native format, N64 and genesis run off of audio emulator plugins converted to run in foobar while Gamecube and up have decoders for the PCM streaming audio
   January 28, 2015, 08:38:07 PM
   OJneg:
   makes sense
   January 28, 2015, 08:37:07 PM
   takato14:
   Capcom too
   January 28, 2015, 08:36:46 PM
   takato14:
   lots of music from 90's Genesis games, Konami, Treasure, etc
   January 28, 2015, 08:35:04 PM
   takato14:
   love Vivalidi, Infected Mushroom, Xploding Plastix, Skinny Puppy, and Necro Facility
   January 28, 2015, 08:34:23 PM
   takato14:
   everything, mainly electronic, lots of video game music
   January 28, 2015, 08:34:02 PM
   Ringingears:
   Any body, any body at all  heard the Valhalla 2 with the NOS GE 6BZ7 tubes Schitt uses with Lyr?
   January 28, 2015, 08:24:29 PM
   OJneg:
   What kinda music are you into tak?
   January 28, 2015, 08:21:01 PM
   takato14:
   Might try that if I ever get an HD600 again. thanks.
   January 28, 2015, 08:20:38 PM
   hans030390:
   All I can really suggest is trying to EQ down that area (2-4KHz or so) and see if it helps. If not, then, yeah, it's something else for you
   January 28, 2015, 08:19:34 PM
   takato14:
   20dB upper midrange hump hype
   January 28, 2015, 08:19:14 PM
   hans030390:
   Haha, Soup, they are kinda better/worse than each other in different ways. I liked 650 stock more than stock 600, but 600's particular "issues" respond better to damping mods. It's kinda weird and backwards, but that's what it was for me
   January 28, 2015, 08:18:52 PM
   takato14:
   nah, I don't hear it with this [link] , which is obviously much more of an offender in this regard
   January 28, 2015, 08:18:31 PM
   hans030390:
   it's probably that upper-mid/low-treble emphasis, if you hear anything like I do
   January 28, 2015, 08:17:37 PM
   takato14:
   lol kay
   January 28, 2015, 08:16:48 PM
   OJneg:
   no comment
   January 28, 2015, 08:15:17 PM
   takato14:
   It's not a big issue per say but I could hear it, and it bothered me
   January 28, 2015, 08:14:55 PM
   takato14:
   [link] that wiggle on the leading edge of the 300Hz and the little bit of rebounding on the IR s
   January 28, 2015, 08:14:22 PM
   takato14:
   just a liiiittle bit of "sizzle" or "springiness", caused by a trampoline-like motion of the diaphragm, like when you pull a rubber band tight and pluck it. Renders as a bit of "harshness", "glare", or "hash", usually in the treble.
   January 28, 2015, 08:13:39 PM
   OJneg:
   Describe your definition of tizziness?
   January 28, 2015, 08:11:17 PM
   takato14:
   rather, when I had it, as I had it for a good month or so on loan from my friend (whom I was selling it for)
   January 28, 2015, 08:10:44 PM
   takato14:
   I didn't even have the O2 when I heard the HD600
   January 28, 2015, 08:09:51 PM
   takato14:
   and no, I've heard it with everything I've tried the HD600 out of, and it's on Tyll's measurements too. The HD800 didn't have this issue.
   January 28, 2015, 08:09:38 PM
   OJneg:
   Tizziness on HD600? Probably your O2. HD600 is revealing of abominations
   January 28, 2015, 08:08:58 PM
   takato14:
   HD600 is a paradox *wink wink wink*
   January 28, 2015, 08:08:48 PM
   OJneg:
   HD600 is better than itself
   January 28, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
   takato14:
   the HD600 is both better and worse than the HD650?
   January 28, 2015, 08:04:54 PM
   takato14:
   wut
   January 28, 2015, 08:04:39 PM
   c61746961:
   HD600 > HD650 > HD600
   January 28, 2015, 08:02:26 PM
   takato14:
   FR and staging were lovely though
   January 28, 2015, 08:01:15 PM
   takato14:
   HD600 was too tizzy for me
   January 28, 2015, 08:00:50 PM
   fishski13:
   Wyrd in da haus.
   January 28, 2015, 07:45:16 PM
   ultrabike:
   What OJ said
   January 28, 2015, 07:42:44 PM
   SoupRKnowva:
   Haha Hans I feel like you just said they were both better than each other :P 650s are better, but the 600s are easier to fix with mods. Oh well, I grabbed the 650 deal. They look better too :D
   January 28, 2015, 07:38:53 PM
   OJneg:
   Also, HD600 is perfect. Modding it is blasphemy
   January 28, 2015, 07:32:56 PM
   OJneg:
   All my favorite phones claim to be diffuse-field targeted. Thing is they all sound different...
   January 28, 2015, 07:25:00 PM
   Bill-p:
   You'd think the HE-560 should be more engaging with its upper midrange emphasis (4KHz bump), but... well, reality is different indeed.
   January 28, 2015, 07:24:53 PM
   Bill-p:
   Kunlun: yep, I guess I can understand. Personally, I'd enjoy the HE-560 more because most of the music I listen to are either too abrasive, or poorly recorded. But the HE-6 should be the better headphone as far as transient response goes... if only by a small margin. FR non-withstanding.
   January 28, 2015, 07:24:27 PM
   Kunlun:
   Off-topic: Hearing seriously talented musicians talk smack about the pop stars they play back-up or accompany is hilarious
   January 28, 2015, 07:24:13 PM
   Kunlun:
   c617etc Stage monitors tend to have a boost so everyone can follow the lead singer and make him or her not sound like crap
   January 28, 2015, 07:23:08 PM
   marvey:
   Just a tiny one. 2-3db.
   January 28, 2015, 07:22:11 PM
   Kunlun:
   I remember liking the he-6 a lot (for short listening sessions at meets)
   January 28, 2015, 07:21:43 PM
   hans030390:
   Joel, correct. Stock black foam left in place. New foam slipped in on top of that. Easy as can be.
   January 28, 2015, 07:21:32 PM
   c61746961:
   Kunlun: Haha, I was talking specifically about emphasis in said regions. I be happy with flat speakers, are stage monitors flat?
   January 28, 2015, 07:21:24 PM
   Kunlun:
   I see, thanks, bill
   January 28, 2015, 07:21:11 PM
   Bill-p:
   Because as far as I can tell, both the HE-6 and HE-560 look kind of similar as far as frequency response goes, but my ears would hear the HE-6 as being slightly sharper and more dynamic.
   January 28, 2015, 07:20:56 PM
   Bill-p:
   I think the HE-560's being less engaging probably has more to do with its transient response... where if the diaphragm was closer to the magnetic array (pushl), it'd be faster than when it's further away from the magnetic array (pull), and that probably contributes to its more "relaxed" sound versus the HE-6.
   January 28, 2015, 07:19:59 PM
   c61746961:
   marv: How big a dip?, too recessed and the voices lose their texture.
   January 28, 2015, 07:19:21 PM
   Kunlun:
   c61746961: You'll want to avoid stage monitors, then!
   January 28, 2015, 07:19:14 PM
   Kunlun:
   I thought that the 2khz dip on the HE560 may have been part of what made it a little less engaging. Some people say that all orthos are a little less engaging (or so I read here), but I thought it was the FS
   January 28, 2015, 07:18:10 PM
   Bill-p:
   What most people describe as "high frequency extension" to me sounds like "fast transient response" or "less decay"...
   January 28, 2015, 07:17:11 PM
   Bill-p:
   My definition of frequencies: <60Hz = looseness, 60-150Hz = punch, 150-300Hz = bloat, 300-500Hz = warmth, 500-1KHz = cuppy, 1KHz-3KHz = shout, 3-5KHz = bite/sharpness, 5-7KHz = sibilance, 7-10KHz = glassiness, >10KHz = piercing
   January 28, 2015, 07:16:25 PM
   marvey:
   I tend to voice my speaker designs with a dip around 2-3k. I didn't invent the concept. It's called the BBC curve. The idea is to make natural mic'd recordings in reverberant halls sound more natural. Now you guys know why I'm sort of anti-diffuse field.
   January 28, 2015, 07:14:21 PM
   c61746961:
   Yeah, I have trouble with IEMS at that region too.
   January 28, 2015, 07:13:00 PM
   Kunlun:
   Is there a way to reduce a 1-3khz bump via dampening material? A specific filter on an iem, for example? The knowles BA filters are for 5khz where the BAs start to spike.
   January 28, 2015, 07:10:33 PM
   Kunlun:
   1-3khz bumps are added to bring out vocal and lead instruments out and forward in the mix. There's a kind of euphonny to it, because human ears evolved to pay attention to the vocal range. It can be a little shouty at times, depending, though.
   January 28, 2015, 07:09:31 PM
   c61746961:
   100-300Hz = boomyness, 300-1500Hz = cuppyness, anything below 100Hz = good thing xD
   January 28, 2015, 07:07:58 PM
   JoelT:
   Awesome. The measurements look very good indeed. Just to make sure I'm reading this correct - The stock foam is left in place, and the additional 1/8" foam is layered with it (under or over doesn't matter)?
   January 28, 2015, 07:07:35 PM
   hans030390:
   SoupR, feel free to ask any questions if I can help un-confuse you haha
   January 28, 2015, 07:06:58 PM
   c61746961:
   In my experience: 1.5-2KHz = shout, honk, 3-4.5KHz = brightness, 4.5-7.0Khz = glare, hardness, 7.0-8.5KHz = sibilance, 8.5KHz+ = hash, whistle, fatigue
   January 28, 2015, 07:05:51 PM
   hans030390:
   also keep in mind this was with a mic that couldn't go as far in my ear as my current mic, so treble measurements in general will be more subdued than my latest measurements would indicate, fwiw
   January 28, 2015, 07:04:36 PM
   hans030390:
   basically I used that front damping stuff and then stretched out there headband for a lesser clamp, which helped bring out the upper treble that was toned down from the foam. then throw in some of that same foam in the cups to tone down bass, if you want.
   January 28, 2015, 07:03:50 PM
   JoelT:
   I'll dig around, thanks Hans.
   January 28, 2015, 07:03:12 PM
   hans030390:
   see here: [link] and then later here: [link]
   January 28, 2015, 07:03:01 PM
   hans030390:
   yeah, I used a particular disc of open-cell foam, 1/8" thick, in front of the HD600 driver. that alone helps quite a bit. I posted measurements here somewhere...
   January 28, 2015, 06:59:51 PM
   Bill-p:
   I think a bump around 3-4KHz would just add "bite" or "sharpness" to the sound, and maybe sibilance, but won't necessarily cause something to be "shouty".
   January 28, 2015, 06:55:50 PM
   JoelT:
   Has anyone modded their 600 to address the upper-mid/low-treble emphasis? Any recommendations to try?
   January 28, 2015, 06:54:46 PM
   Bill-p:
   Fun fact: Audio Technica headphones typically have this "bump" in the form of a 2KHz emphasis, and yet we pay too much attention to the 3-4KHz bump.
   January 28, 2015, 06:54:31 PM
   Bill-p:
   I've found that such a bump on any headphone would cause a very small bit of shout or harshness, even if it's raised by only 0.5dB...
   January 28, 2015, 06:51:53 PM
   SoupRKnowva:
   Thanks Hans, now you've got me all confused :P
   January 28, 2015, 06:51:42 PM
   Bill-p:
   I'd guess that the HD600's "shout" is due to the very small but sort of noticeable (if using 1KHz as reference) bump around 1.5KHz up.
   January 28, 2015, 06:51:28 PM
   Eric_C:
   my wallet thanks ye guys (esp for this shoutbox); I'll stick with my HD600 instead of getting into the hassle of ordering K7XX + international forwarding
   January 28, 2015, 06:44:30 PM
   hans030390:
   though other ears may find hd600 more neutral. something about the 650's treble is weirder for me than 600 though. but less unpleasant than the upper-mid 600 emphasis
   January 28, 2015, 06:41:43 PM
   hans030390:
   I had both HD600/650 on hand at same time recently (newer units). 650 has more of that mid-bass emphasis but always had consistently lower distortion in the bass vs. 600. 650 sounded more neutral to me than 600 due to having less of a upper-mid/low-treble emphasis.
   January 28, 2015, 06:40:40 PM
   takato14:
   excuse my shitty typing, on my phone.
   January 28, 2015, 06:14:43 PM
   takato14:
   has the cause of the HD600's glare been determined? I noticed that myself and I don't see it talked about often. My friend described it as a "Sahara Desert effect" and theorized that it was caused by the poor earpad aging issue, but I question whether our not they even age poorly in the first place, let alone that the shout has anything to do with it.